Hi everyone, Michael Strauss has asked me to give some input for the KBO science case and I would like to add one point to Gary's excellent write-up (MSG 100). As Gary mentions in his write-up, lightcurves of bright KBOs can be searched for rotational periods. This is not just important per se but can also be used to get a constraint on the bulk density of KBOs as an ensemble. This has been successfully done for asteroids and is currently tried for cometary nuclei but the data are much too sparse for the latter. In a plot of axial ratio of the asteroids versus rotation period, there are no asteroids larger than 200m (with 2 exceptions) with rotation periods higher than 2.2hr. This indicates that a lot of these asteroids must be rubble piles (with density larger than about 3g/cm^3). The reason that no fast rotator exist (in the larger than 200m sizes) is that they would be torn apart by the centrifugal forces. (For details about the asteroid case, ask one of the experts on your team, Al Harris). If periods and axial ratios of a large number of KBOs will get acquired, meaningful constraints on the bulk density of KBOs (as an ensemble) could be made. This method is the only one right now to get bulk densities for KBOs (densities for selected individual KBOs can be obtained for binary KBOs). The question is, how feasible are the LSST observations to get rotational periods from these sparse observations. Simple simulations (by me and Nalin Samarasinha) show promise but it will have to be investigated further. In principle it should be doable because the rotation periods do not need to be too accurate. If a suspected fast rotator is found, it could be followed up with other telescopes over a short time span with good temporal coverage. Some of the problems to derive a period from a lightcurve are: a) change in viewing geometry b) opposition effect (i.e. solar phase angle dependence) c) photometric accuracy d) recovery of rotation periods from data with large temporal gaps. a) is not a problem because of the distance of the KBOs (might be more a problem for Centaurs) b) does have to be corrected for. This depends on the scattering properties of the surface. It is not currently known if there is an opposition surge for TNOs similar to asteroids. If there is a pronounced effect, it will be difficult to correct for it because there will not be enough solar phase angle coverage. On the other hand if there is just a linear dependence on solar phase angle then a range of phase coefficients can be used to explore the effect on the recovery of the period. Sheppard and Jewitt (AJ 124, 2002) measured the solar phase effect for 7 TNOs and found a linear dependence for those 7 inside a solar phase angle of 2deg. c) the photometric accuracy needed will depend on the amplitude of the lightcurve. The larger the amplitude the lower the photometric accuracy has to be. I do not see it as a big problem unless the majority of TNOs are very spherical. d) This will be challenging but not impossible. In principle a family of solutions with probable periods can be obtained with Fourier Transforms and subsequent clean algorithms (using the information of the spacing of the data as 1-dim. psf). The advantage of a clean algorithm is that aliases induced by the spacing of the data and spurious periods are cleaned out. (The FT clean algorithms used by us are very slow because they use a cross correlation to stabilize the clean algorithm for noisy data. The last point should not be a problem with faster computers and optimization of the codes.) The result of the FT and clean algorithm should be checked with other period search programs. Beatrice Mueller LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST Mailing List Server LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST This is message 158 in the lsst-general archive, URL LSST http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~dss/LSST/lsst-general/msg.158.html LSST http://www.astro.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/LSSTmailinglists.pl/show_subscription?list=lsst-general LSST The index is at http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~dss/LSST/lsst-general/INDEX.html LSST To join/leave the list, send mail to lsst-request@astro.princeton.edu LSST To post a message, mail it to lsst-general@astro.princeton.edu LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST LSST